I don't care about Flash, I can RDP into a desktop and watch all the Flash I want. What bugs me is that Jobs is full of crap. He's a salesman using his salesman schtick to justify his personal problems. Apple has helped developers write "premier" apps before, they could just as easily have helped Adobe make Flash palatable on the iPhone and iPad if they so desired, assuming Flash was really as bad as Jobs makes it out to be, which it's not. First came anything that Jobs decided related even remotely to porn, now Flash....what's next?
Adobe Replies to Steve Jobs’ “Thoughts on Flashâ€
- Thread starter iDan
- Start date
winwaed
iPF Noob
I think Silverlight is nicer, more modern and sits on .NET. I've even coded a neat little temporal panoramic photo compared using it - and this was remarkably easy to do. Alas the iPad will probably never support it - a particular shame as it also supports multitouch.
The whole Flash fuss is really about open systems and Adobe are only the poster child. Apple are making the same mistake they made in the late 80s with the Mac. Great reviews but they lost a 30% market share because they restricted their systems.
If you want to code an iPad you must use Objective C and you can only distribute the app through the AppStore. Contrast with the Microsoft approach where they offer over half a dozen languages and platforms, and there are many third party alternatives. Also you can distribute it however you want.
If you want lots of developers, apps, and competition, you should have lots of free examples, plus lots of ways of doing things.
The whole Flash fuss is really about open systems and Adobe are only the poster child. Apple are making the same mistake they made in the late 80s with the Mac. Great reviews but they lost a 30% market share because they restricted their systems.
If you want to code an iPad you must use Objective C and you can only distribute the app through the AppStore. Contrast with the Microsoft approach where they offer over half a dozen languages and platforms, and there are many third party alternatives. Also you can distribute it however you want.
If you want lots of developers, apps, and competition, you should have lots of free examples, plus lots of ways of doing things.
ayerbusiness
iPF Noob
I think flash is very important on iPad and it must also be allowed by Steve Jobs.
What ever that's what I say. There is NO reason Apple must do anything. If people want it the market will make that clear. For now it seems the free market has nothing but support for a flash-less pad.
I want to see how people will be creative working around flash and push into new areas! Apple is forcing innovation. People and purchase the devices and participate OR not participate and get devices WITH flash.
Regards,
I want to see how people will be creative working around flash and push into new areas! Apple is forcing innovation. People and purchase the devices and participate OR not participate and get devices WITH flash.
Regards,
Perplexed Coder
iPF Noob
Open letter to Steve Jobs
Open letter to Steve Jobs
Dear Steve,
I remember, long ago, back in High School there were always the kids who were not gifted in the stature department. Unfortunately some of them got picked on because they were small, and others decided to show everyone they were a big man by picking fights with everyone so they could “prove themselvesâ€. It's a sad part of being small, having to always prove yourself to those around you. Even those small people who grow up to be successful in life never seem to lose the chip on their shoulder, and they continue to pick fights everywhere and with everyone.
I can't help but think you must relate to these poor individuals plight in some ways. When Microsoft dominated you in the PC market, you must have felt like the small kid who needed to fight their way to the top no matter who they had to fight to get there. With Flash it was no different. Flash technology has dominated the market in comparison to your quicktime format ever since it's inception. So now you start a fight with Adobe, to prove yourself, where there were only wanting to work together.
You're right that Flash does have memory problems, but so does quicktime and silverlight. You're wrong if you think HTML 5 will replace flash, because that showcases the fact you really have no argument. Small people who are losing an argument sometimes LASH OUT at others with completely unrelated arguments to prove their point, and this is what it appears to us that you are doing today. The truth is, HTML5 can compete with the video capability of flash but not interactive functionality; there will be no incredible online games created solely with HTML 5, something which Flash reigns supreme. Why do we not hear about Flash's interactivity when you are making comparisons? Because HTML5 can't compete and you know it.
In watching demos, HTML 5 does handle video well. Does this mean it will replace Flash? Of course not. HTML 5 isn't due out for years, and market penetration will take years more. After all this time, HTML 5 will be only able to do what Flash has been able to do all along. You once promoted Quicktime as the next best thing to compete with flash, and when that failed you are now pushing another video format. Have you still not realized Flash is more than just playing video?
I don't take you for a stupid man, so it boggles the mind why you would make ludicrous statements regarding HTML 5 replacing Flash when you know it can't compete overall and isn't meant to. It makes me think that you must have ulterior motives. Could it be that you don't want your apps to be ported to other platforms easily? I think so. This gives you an advantage as the apps are already created for your platform and if it were easy to port your games to other platforms easily, like Flash offers, developers would flock to that technology. Truth is, several apps created using Flash were already accepted in your app store because you didn't realize they were created with flash. Then you barred that too. Your approval team accepted them, so they must be up to your standards. But you still refuse them. Why? It's obvious to everyone that you just don't want developers to create for multiple platforms. Why not just admit that your decision to not allow flash is a business decision rather than a technical one? Oh. That's right. They have annoying regulatory bodies that disallow this type of behaviour. Is this why you had to make up the story about flash not being good enough, even though it already past through your regulators? Again, I think so. You should be ashamed of yourself. Just tell the truth.
I can't help but think that your elementary school teacher must have labelled your report card with “Does not play well with othersâ€. Adobe did not start a fight with you, but you pick a fight with them? One day you may realize that fighting isn't the answer. For example, you could have handled the Adobe thing so much better. A more appropriate response to Adobe may have been “We recognize Flash has brought interactivity to the web like no other product has. Unfortunately for our phones it also causes. We have put together a list of requirements for Adobe and together our teams are working closely together to make this happen. We look forward to having Flash on our platforms in the near future.â€. Doesn't that sound like a more logical approach? Work WITH people instead of AGAINST people? Steve? STEVE!! Pay attention here, this is important stuff.
Going back to my high school days again, an interesting thing occurred. While the little guys always tried to pick fights with the big guys, the really big guys usually didn't have problems with each other. Why? Because they had nothing to prove so why fight. This is why Microsoft, Google, and Adobe play well together. Sure they compete against each other, for example Silverlight vs. Flash, but none have gone so far as to openly abuse each other in the press as you have done. You need to realize that no one is picking a fight with you, and you don't need to prove yourself anymore. You're welcome to play with the big boys now but the only requirement is that you leave the bad attitude at the door.
I would have thought you would have learned from the original Mac Vs. Windows battle. Your closed system was less appealing to consumers than windows because it gave them fewer choices. With Windows they were able to pick the hardware, from a much larger software library, and Microsoft worked with many hardware manufacturers to make sure their software worked on their platform. The same thing is happening today with Android where they are working with Adobe and many hardware manufacturers to provide an operating system that will give the consumers and developers choices instead of your closed framework. My point in telling you this is, maybe now isn't the time to be picking fights with anyone, particularly a potential partner (again, unless have ulterior motives as mentioned above) . If you continue along this path, the same thing will happen as it did with Windows. Hopefully you have learned something from that experience, although based on your actions, it seems to not be the case.
I still have a lot of respect for you, Steve. I learnt to program with basic on a Apple II then a mac plus using Hypercard, and now one of my machines is a Mac Pro. So I have had a fondness for your products almost since day 1 and still do. That's why now I'm hoping that your next step will be a more positive one. While I am just a humble programmer at heart, I hope you take this letter as sign that I still believe in you. If I didn't, I wouldn't bother writing. I'm waiting with baited breath to see what you do next. Have you learned anything? Or are you going to keep acting like you are afflicted by the little man's syndrome. The choice is yours.
Yours Truly,
Perplexed Coder
Open letter to Steve Jobs
Dear Steve,
I remember, long ago, back in High School there were always the kids who were not gifted in the stature department. Unfortunately some of them got picked on because they were small, and others decided to show everyone they were a big man by picking fights with everyone so they could “prove themselvesâ€. It's a sad part of being small, having to always prove yourself to those around you. Even those small people who grow up to be successful in life never seem to lose the chip on their shoulder, and they continue to pick fights everywhere and with everyone.
I can't help but think you must relate to these poor individuals plight in some ways. When Microsoft dominated you in the PC market, you must have felt like the small kid who needed to fight their way to the top no matter who they had to fight to get there. With Flash it was no different. Flash technology has dominated the market in comparison to your quicktime format ever since it's inception. So now you start a fight with Adobe, to prove yourself, where there were only wanting to work together.
You're right that Flash does have memory problems, but so does quicktime and silverlight. You're wrong if you think HTML 5 will replace flash, because that showcases the fact you really have no argument. Small people who are losing an argument sometimes LASH OUT at others with completely unrelated arguments to prove their point, and this is what it appears to us that you are doing today. The truth is, HTML5 can compete with the video capability of flash but not interactive functionality; there will be no incredible online games created solely with HTML 5, something which Flash reigns supreme. Why do we not hear about Flash's interactivity when you are making comparisons? Because HTML5 can't compete and you know it.
In watching demos, HTML 5 does handle video well. Does this mean it will replace Flash? Of course not. HTML 5 isn't due out for years, and market penetration will take years more. After all this time, HTML 5 will be only able to do what Flash has been able to do all along. You once promoted Quicktime as the next best thing to compete with flash, and when that failed you are now pushing another video format. Have you still not realized Flash is more than just playing video?
I don't take you for a stupid man, so it boggles the mind why you would make ludicrous statements regarding HTML 5 replacing Flash when you know it can't compete overall and isn't meant to. It makes me think that you must have ulterior motives. Could it be that you don't want your apps to be ported to other platforms easily? I think so. This gives you an advantage as the apps are already created for your platform and if it were easy to port your games to other platforms easily, like Flash offers, developers would flock to that technology. Truth is, several apps created using Flash were already accepted in your app store because you didn't realize they were created with flash. Then you barred that too. Your approval team accepted them, so they must be up to your standards. But you still refuse them. Why? It's obvious to everyone that you just don't want developers to create for multiple platforms. Why not just admit that your decision to not allow flash is a business decision rather than a technical one? Oh. That's right. They have annoying regulatory bodies that disallow this type of behaviour. Is this why you had to make up the story about flash not being good enough, even though it already past through your regulators? Again, I think so. You should be ashamed of yourself. Just tell the truth.
I can't help but think that your elementary school teacher must have labelled your report card with “Does not play well with othersâ€. Adobe did not start a fight with you, but you pick a fight with them? One day you may realize that fighting isn't the answer. For example, you could have handled the Adobe thing so much better. A more appropriate response to Adobe may have been “We recognize Flash has brought interactivity to the web like no other product has. Unfortunately for our phones it also causes. We have put together a list of requirements for Adobe and together our teams are working closely together to make this happen. We look forward to having Flash on our platforms in the near future.â€. Doesn't that sound like a more logical approach? Work WITH people instead of AGAINST people? Steve? STEVE!! Pay attention here, this is important stuff.
Going back to my high school days again, an interesting thing occurred. While the little guys always tried to pick fights with the big guys, the really big guys usually didn't have problems with each other. Why? Because they had nothing to prove so why fight. This is why Microsoft, Google, and Adobe play well together. Sure they compete against each other, for example Silverlight vs. Flash, but none have gone so far as to openly abuse each other in the press as you have done. You need to realize that no one is picking a fight with you, and you don't need to prove yourself anymore. You're welcome to play with the big boys now but the only requirement is that you leave the bad attitude at the door.
I would have thought you would have learned from the original Mac Vs. Windows battle. Your closed system was less appealing to consumers than windows because it gave them fewer choices. With Windows they were able to pick the hardware, from a much larger software library, and Microsoft worked with many hardware manufacturers to make sure their software worked on their platform. The same thing is happening today with Android where they are working with Adobe and many hardware manufacturers to provide an operating system that will give the consumers and developers choices instead of your closed framework. My point in telling you this is, maybe now isn't the time to be picking fights with anyone, particularly a potential partner (again, unless have ulterior motives as mentioned above) . If you continue along this path, the same thing will happen as it did with Windows. Hopefully you have learned something from that experience, although based on your actions, it seems to not be the case.
I still have a lot of respect for you, Steve. I learnt to program with basic on a Apple II then a mac plus using Hypercard, and now one of my machines is a Mac Pro. So I have had a fondness for your products almost since day 1 and still do. That's why now I'm hoping that your next step will be a more positive one. While I am just a humble programmer at heart, I hope you take this letter as sign that I still believe in you. If I didn't, I wouldn't bother writing. I'm waiting with baited breath to see what you do next. Have you learned anything? Or are you going to keep acting like you are afflicted by the little man's syndrome. The choice is yours.
Yours Truly,
Perplexed Coder
The idiots have finaly arrived.
Your really full of it! I would reread what I wrote and post an apology to Steve and the rest of us who want FLASH to go away.
It is a clear danger to the fool who allows it do to the fact it is so insecure.
You probably are the type who walks the streets of a third world country dressed as a wealthy person never giving a thought to your immediate future.
Sent from an iPad.
Your really full of it! I would reread what I wrote and post an apology to Steve and the rest of us who want FLASH to go away.
It is a clear danger to the fool who allows it do to the fact it is so insecure.
You probably are the type who walks the streets of a third world country dressed as a wealthy person never giving a thought to your immediate future.
Sent from an iPad.
Perplexed Coder
iPF Noob
Sometimes the truth hurts
All technologies are insecure, 4phun. Surely you must realize that is why there are updates to browsers, patches for operating systems, and the like. If you were a coder you would realize that it is impossible to make a product that is 100% hackproof. That's why programmers realize they can only use obfuscation code to make it more difficult for hackers, but it is not possible to completely protect them.
It's an ongoing battle, and it is no different than with Flash. If there is a security issue, they fix it, and move on to the next one. This is software development. This is why to developers Steve's argument that it will ban Flash forever reeks of inconsistencies. He knows damn well any issues can be fixed, so it must be a non-technical reason for his barring it as mentioned in my previous email.
It's clear to me that you are not going to listen to anything anyone says, and you are just a Steve brown noser. If you weren't, you could admit that what Flash has done with gaining market share, and that there is no product on the market today that in any way competes with Flash's online functionality or market dominance. If it wasn't a great product, the consumers would have kicked it to the curb many years ago. Instead they have hundreds of thousand developers, most of the top social games are created with it, and many of the biggest websites online incorporate it. Not so bad if I do say so myself!
I also know when people throw insults back instead of actually writing a proper response, it's because they really have nothing to say. I noticed you didn't comment on my point regarding video in Flash being just a small component, whereas HTML 5 doesn't stand a chance to compete with Flash's entire functionality. Looks to me as if you let your fingers type before your brain was engaged.
Apple's slogan is to "Think Different.', but all I request of you is to just think before you type. It's not about hurling insults, it's about technological fact. Logical analysis. The best technologies for the job.
All technologies are insecure, 4phun. Surely you must realize that is why there are updates to browsers, patches for operating systems, and the like. If you were a coder you would realize that it is impossible to make a product that is 100% hackproof. That's why programmers realize they can only use obfuscation code to make it more difficult for hackers, but it is not possible to completely protect them.
It's an ongoing battle, and it is no different than with Flash. If there is a security issue, they fix it, and move on to the next one. This is software development. This is why to developers Steve's argument that it will ban Flash forever reeks of inconsistencies. He knows damn well any issues can be fixed, so it must be a non-technical reason for his barring it as mentioned in my previous email.
It's clear to me that you are not going to listen to anything anyone says, and you are just a Steve brown noser. If you weren't, you could admit that what Flash has done with gaining market share, and that there is no product on the market today that in any way competes with Flash's online functionality or market dominance. If it wasn't a great product, the consumers would have kicked it to the curb many years ago. Instead they have hundreds of thousand developers, most of the top social games are created with it, and many of the biggest websites online incorporate it. Not so bad if I do say so myself!
I also know when people throw insults back instead of actually writing a proper response, it's because they really have nothing to say. I noticed you didn't comment on my point regarding video in Flash being just a small component, whereas HTML 5 doesn't stand a chance to compete with Flash's entire functionality. Looks to me as if you let your fingers type before your brain was engaged.
Apple's slogan is to "Think Different.', but all I request of you is to just think before you type. It's not about hurling insults, it's about technological fact. Logical analysis. The best technologies for the job.
Just for the record I have a late model iMac and a Macbook 12 months old plus iPhones, ipod touches and an iPad all accessing the Internet. I have had flash blocked on my Macs for more than 12 months now and don't miss it. My computers run much faster by blocking flash.
I have had no need for flash period
Further more many of my customers have also blocked flash on there computers.
Millions of users are doing the same so why is it so important that I have to accept flash as a standard when I don't need it.
I have had no need for flash period
Further more many of my customers have also blocked flash on there computers.
Millions of users are doing the same so why is it so important that I have to accept flash as a standard when I don't need it.
Last edited:
Seadog
iPF Noob
Flash is just another case of Adobe bloat. If I want to watch flash based media, I just go to my laptop or iMac. The only thing I regret not having is the local news active radar, but I have workarounds. The anti-Jobs contingent should remember that Apple (without Jobs) went to a Microsoft type operation and almost went under. If it weren't for Microsoft needing them to avoid anti-trust restrictions, and providing help, they would have folded. Now Apple is more financially secure than MS. Jobs did this, and deserves respect for doing so. This is not the first time Jobs has declared something as obsolete and stopped using it, to the dismay of many. No Mac has had a 5.5" floppy, the iMac got rid of the 3.25 floppy, serial port, SCSI, and the tower. it will take time, but more and more sources are moving away from flash technology. If Adobe replaces flash with something significantly better, Apple will probably adopt it. All they are saying at this time is that it is time for change and we will give incentive for that change.
Linkreincarnate
iPF Noob
Flash will never be accepted by Apple willfully. Flash apps would cannibalize app store sales. Apple knows this already. That said I wouldn't put it past the JB community to create their own solution...
winwaed
iPF Noob
That is exactly what it is about - controlling the platform and the delivery medium (Apple gets a cut from every AppStore sale). Flash is merely a poster child. I couldn't care less about Flash but I do care about platform issue. It killed Apple in the 80s and Jobs wants to do it again...
