Apple’s 2012 Profits Dwarf Those of All its Major Competitors Combined

[thewitt]

Apple does make very good products; however, I do hate the cheap labor part. Those people suffer so we can have our toys. They would probably be even more expensive if there wasn't any cheap labor.

No one working on Apple products at Foxconn in China is suffering. They are earning much more than any other job they can get, being fed better meals than they would at home, and living in very nice dormitories.

There are thousands lining up for hundreds of jobs every time there is an opening.

 

[thewitt]

My issue is more with dirt cheap labor and people being treated like crap. No worries.

The workers at Foxconn are not being treated like crap. You would do well to educate yourself on their working conditions and on the other options they have before casting western judgement on what is to you a very foreign environment.

I live in Asia and have been in several Foxconn facilities. They rival anything it the US for unskilled labor.

 

[s2mikey]

The workers at Foxconn are not being treated like crap. You would do well to educate yourself on their working conditions and on the other options they have before casting western judgement on what is to you a very foreign environment.

I live in Asia and have been in several Foxconn facilities. They rival anything it the US for unskilled labor.

Wasn't there just a big issue there that made the news with some suicides and other things going on? The articles can be dug up. I'm not making this stuff up. The point is that some of the profitability comes from the lowest common denominator labor costs. I dunno. It is what it is. That's why they chose to make the stuff there. That's why lots of companies make stuff there. They can pay people much less.

 

[KevinJS]

Foxconn is a supplier to Apple. They bid, they get the contract and they build where they choose to. I wonder why it's alway Foxconn who get the bad press. Could it be because they are identified closely with Apple? Samsung also supply Apple. I don't recall ever reading a single post concerning the welfare of Samsung workers, or the workers of Samsung's suppliers. Perhaps they are all located in the USA, working for $75 per hour? I'll have to do some checking up.

Incidentally, I've worked in some "cheap labor" countries. One thing always stood out. There was always a lineup of people outside the factory hopeful of scoring a job.

Sent from my iPhone using iPF

 

[ardchoille]

Foxconn is a supplier to Apple. They bid, they get the contract and they build where they choose to. I wonder why it's alway Foxconn who get the bad press. Could it be because they are identified closely with Apple? Samsung also supply Apple. I don't recall ever reading a single post concerning the welfare of Samsung workers, or the workers of Samsung's suppliers. Perhaps they are all located in the USA, working for $75 per hour? I'll have to do some checking up.

Incidentally, I've worked in some "cheap labor" countries. One thing always stood out. There was always a lineup of people outside the factory hopeful of scoring a job.

Sent from my iPhone using iPF

Here you go:
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/20...r-employs-child-workers-labor-group-says.html
(Samsung Employs Child Labor)

 

[KevinJS]

Thanks, Ard. I can't say I'm surprised.


I hadn't done any digging as yet, but I'm getting seriously peeved by the double standards.

Sent from my Freightliner, where I will be spending the night, in sharp contrast to tech workers who will at least have enough room to stand up straight and walk around a bit. (Just sayin')

Sent from my iPhone using iPF

 

[ardchoille]

Thanks, Ard. I can't say I'm surprised.


I hadn't done any digging as yet, but I'm getting seriously peeved by the double standards.

Sent from my Freightliner, where I will be spending the night, in sharp contrast to tech workers who will at least have enough room to stand up straight and walk around a bit. (Just sayin')

Sent from my iPhone using iPF

Here's how I see it. Foxconn makes devices for Apple and is a separate company from Apple. If Foxconn does something wrong it isn't the fault of Apple.

Samsung makes devices for Samsung. If Samsung does something wrong it's the fault of Samsung.

Apple recently intervened to improve conditions at Foxconn, though they weren't required to, so Apple is at least trying to improve things for the workers.

 

[thewitt]

Wasn't there just a big issue there that made the news with some suicides and other things going on? The articles can be dug up. I'm not making this stuff up. The point is that some of the profitability comes from the lowest common denominator labor costs. I dunno. It is what it is. That's why they chose to make the stuff there. That's why lots of companies make stuff there. They can pay people much less.

Yes, there were some suicides at Foxconn, though the employees were not working in the Apple sub section.

Remember there are over 120,000 employees at this one site, and the majority of them are under 25 and away from home for the first time. Depression and homesickness is likely in any population with this demographic.

The suicide rate in China's general population is significantly higher than at Foxconn.

If you do not make use of every opportunity to save money as a manufacturer, you can be assured your competition will, and you will soon not have to worry about it any longer.

It's a global economy and everyone needs to understand the ramifications..

Want to "buy American" and avoid all the "cheap labor" products? Then you can own nothing with a semiconductor chip in it...

 

[s2mikey]

Yes, there were some suicides at Foxconn, though the employees were not working in the Apple sub section.

Remember there are over 120,000 employees at this one site, and the majority of them are under 25 and away from home for the first time. Depression and homesickness is likely in any population with this demographic.

The suicide rate in China's general population is significantly higher than at Foxconn.

If you do not make use of every opportunity to save money as a manufacturer, you can be assured your competition will, and you will soon not have to worry about it any longer.

It's a global economy and everyone needs to understand the ramifications..

Want to "buy American" and avoid all the "cheap labor" products? Then you can own nothing with a semiconductor chip in it...

What demographic are we talking about? Miserable, oppressed people who are taken advantage of for ultra cheap labor due to their lousy living conditions? I mean, that's what we are really saying here. That's why companies tend to follow the misery when they look for factories. That's because the more down and out people are the cheaper you can get them to work for. Just wait until the standard of living in china changes a little and becomes more positive. Then, the companies will pack up and find the next most miserable place on earth. My thinking is Afghanistan. In between bombings they can have the workers make all the gadgets. Probably pay them with rocks or something. Profits will soar. The birds will sing. All will be good in the world. Once they run out of places on earth, they'll travel the universe looking for misery in other galaxies. These companies might think they are doing these people a favor but its easy to appear to be helping people when they have nothing to begin with.

It's global all right but its isnt necessarily all good news. It actually sucks in many ways. With many of these companies making unreal amounts of money, they could make some things here but they choose not to. That's fine. But let's not try and sell it as some good thing for the people who have these jobs. And let's stop with the "if we don't use cheap labor then we can't continue to make eleventy trillion dollars a quarter and our shareholders will freak out". Enough with that.

Sorry, I don't mean to be getting off on a tangent like this or to start a ruckus. It's just that, well, it's a touchy subject for many people. Nothing personal.

 

[s2mikey]

Yes, there were some suicides at Foxconn, though the employees were not working in the Apple sub section.

Remember there are over 120,000 employees at this one site, and the majority of them are under 25 and away from home for the first time. Depression and homesickness is likely in any population with this demographic.

The suicide rate in China's general population is significantly higher than at Foxconn.

If you do not make use of every opportunity to save money as a manufacturer, you can be assured your competition will, and you will soon not have to worry about it any longer.

It's a global economy and everyone needs to understand the ramifications..

Want to "buy American" and avoid all the "cheap labor" products? Then you can own nothing with a semiconductor chip in it...

Global economy is a nice way of saying exploitation of miserable people for cheap labor. Companies follow the misery and build factories where they find the highest level of misery. It's that simple. Once china gets a little more developed and people dare to earn a few more bucks.....the companies will pack up shop and find the next most miserable place on earth. Maybe Afghanistan? In between bombings they can assemble tablets. That's cool. I guess?

Look, I'm not trying to get too off tangent here and this isn't personal at all. It's just that we are told that if these companies don't make this stuff in third world countries then the companies can't possibly survive. Then, they turn around and post obscene profit numbers. I mean obscene. What does that tell the average person? It says that the extremely cheap labor and regulation avoidance makes them insane amounts of money instead just very large amounts of money. They could make stuff here and create some good jobs but a room full of scruffy share holders would freak out so its not good enough. That's what's going on here. It's somewhat exploitative, no matter how its explained.

Sorry, I just can't get down with these rosy explanations of cheap labor. My apologies. And yes, me buying an iPad perpetrates the problem. You can't win.

 

[thewitt]

Really, you need to educate yourself on the world outside of the US.

There is a huge world here that looks NOTHING like what you are seeing in your head.

 

[AQ_OC]

I think it is time to close this discussion folks.