iPad to replace Nook and Kindel

[deaffob]

I have both nook and iPad and there is no way that iPad can replace my nook. I say you should give iPad a chance and try it for yourself. People gotta understand that it is not a matter of being darker or brighter LCD. LCD will strain your eyes regardless of its brightness. You will feel that it doesn't feel like it is not straining as much but it is. Also, iPad is horrible under direct light but e-ink is same as paper even in direct sunlight.

 

[jmiked]

LCD will strain your eyes regardless of its brightness. You will feel that it doesn't feel like it is not straining as much but it is.

I disagree. That has not been my experience, having used two Kindles and the iPad as readers.

 

[deaffob]

LCD will strain your eyes regardless of its brightness. You will feel that it doesn't feel like it is not straining as much but it is.

I disagree. That has not been my experience, having used two Kindles and the iPad as readers.

You are misunderstanding my point. What I meant is that it will scientifically strain your eyes. Your argument is that you don't "feel" it. Google medical researches relating to LCD.

 

[jmiked]

You are misunderstanding my point. What I meant is that it will scientifically strain your eyes. Your argument is that you don't "feel" it. Google medical researches relating to LCD.

I don't believe I am misunderstanding it. How is scientific strain any different from any other sort of strain?

See:

Do E-Readers Cause Eye Strain? - Bits Blog - NYTimes.com

Particularly:

"Today’s screens are definitely less tiring to look at than older displays, which refreshed the image much less frequently, causing a flicker. Carl Taussig, director of Hewlett-Packard’s Information Surfaces Lab, said the 120 Hz refresh rate typical of modern screens is much quicker than our eyes can even see.

“The new LCDs don’t affect your eyes,†Mr. Taussig said. “Today’s screens update every eight milliseconds, whereas the human eye is moving at a speed between 10 and 30 milliseconds.â€

I ran into other articles that tend to support this. If an LCD screen is adjusted to the same brightness of an eInk screen, then I submit there is no difference to the viewer. Photons are photons, and the fact that one is reflected and the other transmitted is irrelevant. Most of the test results I see that claim LCD cause more eyestrain fail to give any info on how the LCD backlights were adjusted.

Maybe I just keep the brightness on my screens turned down more than others do.

 

[deaffob]

You are misunderstanding my point. What I meant is that it will scientifically strain your eyes. Your argument is that you don't "feel" it. Google medical researches relating to LCD.

I don't believe I am misunderstanding it. How is scientific strain any different from any other sort of strain?

See:

Do E-Readers Cause Eye Strain? - Bits Blog - NYTimes.com

Particularly:

"Today’s screens are definitely less tiring to look at than older displays, which refreshed the image much less frequently, causing a flicker. Carl Taussig, director of Hewlett-Packard’s Information Surfaces Lab, said the 120 Hz refresh rate typical of modern screens is much quicker than our eyes can even see.

“The new LCDs don’t affect your eyes,†Mr. Taussig said. “Today’s screens update every eight milliseconds, whereas the human eye is moving at a speed between 10 and 30 milliseconds.â€

I ran into other articles that tend to support this. If an LCD screen is adjusted to the same brightness of an eInk screen, then I submit there is no difference to the viewer. Photons are photons, and the fact that one is reflected and the other transmitted is irrelevant. Most of the test results I see that claim LCD cause more eyestrain fail to give any info on how the LCD backlights were adjusted.

Maybe I just keep the brightness on my screens turned down more than others do.

Actually you did measure your eye strain with your feeling but what I said was that it is straining your eye whether you feel it or not, "scientifically."

Depending on colors and brightness, photons emitting from different surfaces varies a lot.

I tend to not to read any science related articles from such publication as NYtimes because of their quality. This article writer writes generally gadget related news and didn't even cite his sources. This brought me to speculate that either he copy-pasted other's quote selectively to support his argument or he did not have any credible source. Just stating who said what does mean nothing.

But for the argument's sake, in this article, he stated that papers could be worse under certain circumstances. Is he saying that reading papers or e-ink in dark places could be worse? He didn't state what is that circumstances(although it is obvious).

Refresh rate refers to the rate at which the image on an LCD screen updates. The image on an LCD updates *independently* of the backlighting. The refresh rate is responsible for whether you see motion lag. The backlighting is responsible for whether you perceive any flicker. A higher refresh rate is useful for smoother display of moving images, but should have no effect on static images.

You said you couldn't find any research relating to this matter. Here is an article that cites over 50 sources. The Effects of Video Display Terminal Use on Eye Health and Vision

The average human blink rate is 19 times a minute. When reading a LCD screen, it can go down to 4 times a minute. Also, it has been shown that the exposed ocular surface area increases. This means the eyes start to dry out, leading to vision and fatigue issues. Another factor is the nature of e-ink vs. LCD displays. An e-ink screen produces a square wave image. A VDT display is a guassian image(not the same thing as the guassian filter in photoshop). This means that each pixel is a little brighter in the center, and tapers off in luminosity like a bell curve toward the edge of the pixel. It takes more focusing effort to focus on a guassian image, and when looking at a guassian display, a "lag of accommodation" is created. The net effect is that instead of focusing on the screen, you are focusing behind the screen, and have to use extra focusing effort to keep the screen clear. This constant refocusing occurs thousands of times a second, and leads to a sort of "ocular repetitive motion"(I am oversimplifying this). This was first discovered and published in a paper by Murch in 1982.(referenced in the link above).

As far as I know, LCD screens are guassian image displays. E-Ink produces a square wave image, and that is why many readers find the nook more comfortable to read. As far as refresh rate, that was relevant in the older CRT displays, but irrelevant for LCD monitors.

The article didn't get into a discussion of the mechanisms by which harm might occur, but does dwell somewhat on the flaws of E Ink; so I read this - perhaps somewhat cynically - as a story intended to boost sales of the iPad. It conflates fatigue (strain) with harm, and ultimately added nothing to my understanding of how reading electronic displays may or may not affect my vision.

 

[Star56]

You said you couldn't find any research relating to this matter. Here is an article that cites over 50 sources. The Effects of Video Display Terminal Use on Eye Health and Vision

Ah this "research" you cite contains articles that are 14+ years old! The point is that new backlit screens have all but eliminated issues of eyestrain.

Also, if you will do a search of the peer-reviewed opthamological literature you will find that "eyestrain" is more of a psychological issue than a physiological one.

 

[iPadster]

I love reading via kindle in iPad. No issues of course my second kindle app is on my blackberry. If you can read there you can read anywhere!

I do wish we had option to change background to black. On my mobipocket app on blackberry I would read black backgroi d white text, much easier.

Actually with the B&N reader, one of the themes is black with white text. You can also fade the background to grey which works very well.

 

[Bremen]

Get over the eye strain thing.... it goes no where. I got eye strain from reading the dingy light gray/dark gray eInk screens. Wife and I sold our Sony readers because we both enjoy reading on the iPad so much more. Now after 3 months reading on the iPad there is NO WAY we would go back to the drab eInk screen....

People are different. For me eInk screens hurt my eyes... for others even the modern LCD hurts their eyes...... This is like many other issues in that there is no right/wrong, best/worst, good/bad.... there is only what works best for the individual.....

The tired expression "different strokes for different folks" applies here.....

 

[brandiem09]

I am a voracious reader and have been using my iPad like crazy since I got it. I haven't used an e-reader with e-ink, but I am not having any problems with eyestrain on the iPad while reading. I sometimes get eyestrain while playing certain games, but not much. It's a different story with smaller devices, but the large display on the iPad makes a difference. Also make sure you play around with text size and various fonts. Like another poster mentioned, the Sepia background is the best.

 

[SweetPoison]

I sold my Nook on CL for $150 ~ then I bought my iPad. What a difference!

 

[Mecread]

I have a kindle and I will but my books on my ipad, but for good hard reading i will pick up my kindle. After years of eye strain reading print books and then pdf on computers i will plan to use my kindle as my bed side reader and my ipad for on the fly.

or when my kiddo wants the kindle i still have my books with me.

 

[deaffob]

Ah this "research" you cite contains articles that are 14+ years old! The point is that new backlit screens have all but eliminated issues of eyestrain.

Also, if you will do a search of the peer-reviewed opthamological literature you will find that "eyestrain" is more of a psychological issue than a physiological one.

Care to link any credible source? I wonder if there is any research that doesn't cite studies that are years old. In most research, doctors do their work based on studies that are very old. Did you expect researches, if there is any, that only cites studies from 1~2 years ago?

The only thing that changed in LED backlit is that it eliminated flickering compared to CRT because it doesn't refresh each pixels like CRTs did.

 

[MrFuzz]

I have an iPad, and enjoy it very much. My only complaint is that it is not easy to use when viewing outside.

If you like to read outside, you'd be much better off with a Kindle, which has excellent viewing even in full sunlight. If you are a cuddle-up-in-bed-with-a-book-person, then the iPad is perfect

I took the iPad to read by the pool recently, and it's was unusable in the sunlight.

 

[Bremen]

While not perfect, the read ability is better outside on your iPad if you turn up the screen brightness all the way.....

 

[nytngale]

I have both a nook and a Kindle and can say that I enjoy reading as much on my iPad as the other two. I read a lot, especially on weekends and have not experienced any issues with eyestrain. I prefer the nook or Kindle for reading outside however since the iPad doesn't do so great in the sun. I won't be selling my ereaders, but won't be using them as much.