Hopelessly basic Q. Again!

[Schwang Dang Doodle.]

Hi chaps,

as some may know I have elderly parents, with ipads. My Ma, 83, has been online for 20 years doing only the basic things, emailing & browsing a very limited number of websites. Huge paranoia preventing her ever buying anything online. So hopeless she even asked me the other day "how do I get on google".. when Ive set it up in her favourites, 1st one one 1st row. She opens new tabs ( so the google G logo then in front of her).. but then asks me this.

So this makes me go stark raving mad. As anyone would, having set up the ipad for her, google obtained in 2 clicks. She doesn't have dementia.

Now, we came to another brick wall, re. similarly basic stuff yesterday. I need help on this. Ok we're both on Outlook/ hotmail. Have been emailing each other for years ( tho I usually have to wait days for any reply.. infuriating). I have my outlook via a tab, a website page. I know only this way. My Ma has her outlook via an 'App'. She likes it this way. Tbh I don't even know, or ever need to know, what an 'App' actually is. Its not important for now.

Yesterday I sent her an email 11.17am. After every email, I check in my 'sent items' folder to confirm each email having been sent ( because some dimwit designer has removed the 'Sent email' clear big button when the design suddenly changed- hopeless decisions). It was sent.

Evening I call her, & I say I sent an email. She says she hasn't received it. We're now at a typical brickwall/ at loggerheads. I say I have proof of it being sent. She says she hasn't received it, she is now looking at her Outlook inbox. If she isn't lying.... then it appears this email hasn't been received.

Ok if we say she isn't lying.... how can it be that this email hasn't been received? Is this possible? I say to her categorically not, that an email takes seconds, maybe 1min max or so, to be sent & to be received, once having proof ( my sent items folder showing sent 11.17am) that it has been sent. No two ways about it i say. She gets angry saying "Not Received!" & we commence to argue.

Can anyone help? Thanks, Schwanger.

 

[Jupiter7]

Hi chaps,

as some may know I have elderly parents, with ipads. My Ma, 83, has been online for 20 years doing only the basic things, emailing & browsing a very limited number of websites. Huge paranoia preventing her ever buying anything online. So hopeless she even asked me the other day "how do I get on google".. when Ive set it up in her favourites, 1st one one 1st row. She opens new tabs ( so the google G logo then in front of her).. but then asks me this.

So this makes me go stark raving mad. As anyone would, having set up the ipad for her, google obtained in 2 clicks. She doesn't have dementia.

Now, we came to another brick wall, re. similarly basic stuff yesterday. I need help on this. Ok we're both on Outlook/ hotmail. Have been emailing each other for years ( tho I usually have to wait days for any reply.. infuriating). I have my outlook via a tab, a website page. I know only this way. My Ma has her outlook via an 'App'. She likes it this way. Tbh I don't even know, or ever need to know, what an 'App' actually is. Its not important for now.

Yesterday I sent her an email 11.17am. After every email, I check in my 'sent items' folder to confirm each email having been sent ( because some dimwit designer has removed the 'Sent email' clear big button when the design suddenly changed- hopeless decisions). It was sent.

Evening I call her, & I say I sent an email. She says she hasn't received it. We're now at a typical brickwall/ at loggerheads. I say I have proof of it being sent. She says she hasn't received it, she is now looking at her Outlook inbox. If she isn't lying.... then it appears this email hasn't been received.

Ok if we say she isn't lying.... how can it be that this email hasn't been received? Is this possible? I say to her categorically not, that an email takes seconds, maybe 1min max or so, to be sent & to be received, once having proof ( my sent items folder showing sent 11.17am) that it has been sent. No two ways about it i say. She gets angry saying "Not Received!" & we commence to argue.

Can anyone help? Thanks, Schwanger.

You could ask your mother to check the Junk Folder - it can happen that legitimate mail ends up there.

 

[Schwang Dang Doodle.]

You could ask your mother to check the Junk Folder - it can happen that legitimate mail ends up there.

Hi Jupiter, no my email did 'eventually' appear at her end. She said. Coincidentally (or not) during the call I made 11 hours later.

What I, trying to establish is this. Simply how long does an email take? Is it feasable that it could take 11 hours? If not, then she's likely simply lying to me & wasting my bloody time.

But giving her the benefit of the doubt, is where I come from with the thread.

She told me, once I told her to refresh her inbox (during the call, 11 hours later than the email was sent) that "no.. still nothing received".

Assuming she didn't then go to her junk (no sense it would land here, so many emails we've sent) & fund it there..... is there any validity/ this is my point/ is there any validity, to it not, somehow, being received in her inbox after I had suggested to her to refresh the page?

I say not. I say she's lying. I say she --has-- to be lying.. this is my pov. I just need to exhaust all possibilities there could be a way she is right, that it did 'suddenly' ( hopelessly coincidentally in my book ) "ping" land in her inbox after an 11hour hiatus.

 

[Jupiter7]

Hi Jupiter, no my email did 'eventually' appear at her end. She said. Coincidentally (or not) during the call I made 11 hours later.

What I, trying to establish is this. Simply how long does an email take? Is it feasable that it could take 11 hours? If not, then she's likely simply lying to me & wasting my bloody time.

But giving her the benefit of the doubt, is where I come from with the thread.

She told me, once I told her to refresh her inbox (during the call, 11 hours later than the email was sent) that "no.. still nothing received".

Assuming she didn't then go to her junk (no sense it would land here, so many emails we've sent) & fund it there..... is there any validity/ this is my point/ is there any validity, to it not, somehow, being received in her inbox after I had suggested to her to refresh the page?

I say not. I say she's lying. I say she --has-- to be lying.. this is my pov. I just need to exhaust all possibilities there could be a way she is right, that it did 'suddenly' ( hopelessly coincidentally in my book ) "ping" land in her inbox after an 11hour hiatus.

Emails can get delayed for all sorts of reasons - server failure, wi-fi problems, etc and emails sometimes don’t download to an App.

 

[Schwang Dang Doodle.]

Emails can get delayed for all sorts of reasons - server failure, wi-fi problems, etc and emails sometimes don’t download to an App.

Hi Jupiter, yes, but there was no server failure over this 10 hr period ( this is a very infrequent occurrence maybe 3x per year I've noticed), no wifi problems either here, or with her.

What it is this 'download an email' .. to an 'App' mean? It shouldn't surely make any difference if she uses an "App" to do emails, as opposed to a website as I use. Download? But that is something you instigate/ innitiate by choice.. not something related to emails which come in without innitiating them to. 'Downloading an email ' is certainly something I've never heard of in all the 25 years I've been in the www. It doesn't compute with me.

Thanks Schwanger

 

[Schwang Dang Doodle.]

Surely if you send an email that is delayed, for whatever reason, you are made aware of it "still sending email" or somesuch notification. "Cannot send email". Or "postmaster failure..".

If I've had nothing of any such notification, & in my sent items it is shown as sent, with a time it was sent..... then... surely, it was sent.

If it was sent ( to an email address I know & use many times a week, without ever having such a " dissaoearing act" as this ) then it should've been received. And received about 10-60 seconds after pressing send. I E as any normal email situation that one expects thesedays. Not 10 hours later.

 

[twerppoet]

When you access email using the web, you are usually accessing it remotely on the same server (or server farm) that handles the email. Think of it as going to the post office to both pick up and send all your mail. Everything is right there, and fast. (as long as the mail made it to your post office).

When you use an app you are connecting to the email server over the internet. It's more like having a mail box. The app has to check for email and download it. It's more like having a mail box (with super powers). There are all kinds of things that can prevent or delay and email from getting from the server to the app's inbox. Bad internet, large files, etc.

Some of these also affect your abiltiy to get email via the web, but in most cases it's obvious there. Like not being able to open the site, or seeing that your internet is down. These are less obvious when using an app, since the app's interface does not depend on the internet being up.

There are other considerations. Not all email services are equal. Some have restrictions on file sizes, where emails with large attachments are delayed or even not delivered at all. This is especially true of email services attached to your internet provider. Charter, Spectrum, Yahoo, hobonet, etc. often have more limited and less reliable email than the big guys.

You may or may not get a notifiation about an undeliverable email. Again, it depends on the serves involved. Pretty much the only notification you can be sure of getting is when you send to a non-existnt address. I don't think I've ever seen a notification for a merely delayed email.

In the end, it is not really possible to rule out delayed email. Not any more than you could rule out a delayed letter from the post office. It's complicated. Stuff happens.

 

[Thomas1977]

More than likely if your email is not in the other persons contact list the emails will end up in the junk folder.

 

[Jupiter7]

More than likely if your email is not in the other persons contact list the emails will end up in the junk folder.

The Junk Folder was one of the first suggestions.

 

[Schwang Dang Doodle.]

More than likely if your email is not in the other persons contact list the emails will end up in the junk folder.

Hi Thomas,

but this is my mother. We've emailed each other for 20 years. She is the person I email the most, & no.1 in my contact list.

My email ending in her junk folder, is the very furthest possibility. Also, as Ive said, the email wasn't in her junk folder. It arrived in her inbox. She saw it there.

Just 10 hours late... according to her that is. This 10 hour delay, is not possible in my estimation.

So, an email (my email, not gone to junk, sent successfully as seen in my 'sent items) either... 1. Takes 10 hours to appear in her inbox for some reason I have yet to know exists. Or 2. She is lying & it --did-- arrive in her inbox, seconds after I sent it, as anyone's email would as we all know emails only take seconds to arrive.

It surely, can only be 2. This is all I'm trying to establish.

Thanks, Schwanger

 

[Schwang Dang Doodle.]

The Junk Folder was one of the first suggestions.

And also the first thing I said I ruled out too.

She told me it arrived in her inbox. It doesn't jump from junk, into her inbox, without her instigating this. It wouldn't have gone into her junk anyway.. she is my mother, we are to each other the furthest possible likelihood our emails would end up on one another's junk. Strangers.. we are certainly not.

 

[Schwang Dang Doodle.]

As no-one's suggested any plausible way for this 10 hour delay period to exist, I conclude that it cannot have. She must therefore, have been lying to me.

That is all. Thanks anyway.

 

[J. A.]

I have an email address, provided by my employer, which I avoid using, if possible. One of the reasons that I don’t like it, is that emails take quite a while to appear in my inbox. It can take a few hours, until they arrive, although I know they‘ve been sent.

As I‘ve seen today, this can also happen with emails sent via outlook. My headmistress sent an email to herself today, using an outlook email address, and it didn‘t appear for quite a while. The internet connection was great, she refreshed the inbox repeatedly, but it took some time until the email arrived.

So I wouldn‘t assume she‘s been lying to you. This can happen, even if your experience is different.

 

[Jupiter7]

As no-one's suggested any plausible way for this 10 hour delay period to exist, I conclude that it cannot have. She must therefore, have been lying to me.

That is all. Thanks anyway.

Didn't you read Twerppoet's detailed post?

 

[Schwang Dang Doodle.]

Didn't you read Twerppoet's detailed post?

No, I actually missed this post.

Ok read it ( thanks so much @twerppoet ) & about a third makes sense to me, even with the simple analogies, I can only understand this much.

One thing I just cannot understand, is what on gods earth an "App" is. I have never used one, afaik. They just suddenly appeared it seemed ti me, like covid did, an entirely unwelcome new-fangled unknown entity.. their arrival something completely new, unknown & incomprehensible; & for what their design-purpose is.. is still beyond me. So I avoid them.

So, what the difference is to a website, as I know Im typing on one right now called ipadforums.. remains to me unknown.

So, all I can possibly deduce this delay to be attributed to then, is to this mysterious App thing.

Ok thanks, as much as I cannot fathom this 'thing', it's at least something -just- plausibly "sort of understood". Although I don't.

I need now to sleep. Scwangerzzzz