No more buying books for Kindle app on ipad/iphone

[Kaykaykay]

Why are so many arguments in thus discussion so off base

Amazon is not publishing these books, they are retailing them. Margins are not thin, they simply are not willing to leave you the inApp purchase button and pay Apple like the rest of us do for inApp purchases.

They remove the button and make you go to their website to purchase content for their app and Apple is a demon because of it?

I'm sorry but I disagree.

I guess I'm out of this discussion because I'm clearly taking a position that no one wants to acknowledge, however this is NOT a publishing issue, it's a retail issue on a product with no physical carrying costs that's being sold at a 200% markup.

If Amazon wants to sell this through the inApp purchase rules they agreed to in their development agreement, they need to pay their commission payment like the rest of us.

-t

Disagree all you want. It's a straw man argument to say that others insist that Apple make nothing on in-app sales. It's simply that many people recognize that 30 percent isn't doable given where ebook margins stand.

It's ridiculous to assume that every vendor has the ability to pay 30 percent.

You might take note that some app developers have pulled out of the iOS market simply because they didn't make enough to pay Apple 30 percent. You might also note Amazon's most recent earnings breakdowns, which show a gross profit margin of 25.4 percent. And that is significantly higher than what its ebook sales have been producing, given Amazon's long-term approach to trying to build market share on thin margins.

 

[Ninaseer]

iOS is a platform like Windows. When Kindles application was introduced in 2009 it was approved with access to outside links. So were Nook, Kobo, borders and all the rest. Every application was approved by Apple to work with outside links to the sellers web site. None of these purchases were processed by Apple's iTunes. If they were, then Amazon and anyone else asking Apple to process such a sale should pay a royalty.
The fact is that Apple wanted to attract apps for iOS. I know one of my expectations when I bought my iPad was to use it as a reader. Whether it was eBook rising sales or Sony's application, something caused Apple to decide to apply in app clause specifically to Media. And they just didn't care how the alienated all their own customers.
As for Kindles's tablet offering an iBooks app - I have no idea if apps will even be a possibility or what the terms will be, if and when Amazon ever offers EPub. Just too theoretical right now. Another question is will Apple ask Stanza (owned by Amazon) to provide a link to iBooks....unfortunately, now that all links are gone, we don't know. But I would have thought that would have been a reasonable request.

I like the Kindle app but I'm not saying Amazon is blameless. Both companies are vying for control of ebooks. But at least with Kindle, as consumers, we got a great selection and lower prices. Apple usually takes such care with offering a great experience for their customers. This is very disappointing.

 

[Maxwell]

No Kindle store button...no problem

Is this just another scheme for Apple to force us to buy from them instead of other retailers? It's like your parents telling you not to do something...but you then end up doing it more.

Taking away the kindle store button makes me want to buy only from Kindle and Nook instead of the apple book store now.

I was buying equally between these book stores...now i will probably end up supporting/buying from Kindle and Nook more than ever.

Thanks apple
keep it up

 

[Ninaseer]

I didn't see all your posts earlier. I'm so glad to see that I'm not alone in my prospective.
Are all of you aware of the Agency Model plan that Apple came up with earlier this year? I only read about this recently. Evidently a significant number of popular books are published through what are dubbed the Big 6 publishers and their brands. From my understanding these publishers would sell at wholesale prices and Amazon would retail them at much lower prices than the suggested list price. aApple came up with this model that put publishers back in control of pricing and these books had to be sold at the suggested list, with only a 30% margin to the bookseller. So basically Apple was demanding the full margin on the most popular titles. An undoable possibility they had to realize when they demanded it. Anyway, that's why we see "price is set by the publisher" all the time now. Which really irks me since I do agree with the Witt on one point - digital titles can't cost as much to produce and distribute as physical books.

 

[Ninaseer]

As for your suggestion that Apple could control the market by disallowing third party books… that is absurd. They would be committing corporate suicide as far as that the e-book market is concerned. There would be an immediate stampede to other platforms. Apple would instantly lose market share, not gain it. That’s why they haven’t done it – they aren’t stupid.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree, but the fact that Apple actually threatened to remove these apps entirely and only compromised on the removal of the buy button puts up a red flag for me. I love the iPad, but I would think that Amazon and all the other booksellers will limit their investment in iOS moving forward. Which is a shame for everybody and probably a shot in the arm for android. I really do strongly support competition, but I have to say it again....Shame on Apple.

 

[Kirstenn]

Hi, I'm new to this forum. Everybody seems to be accepting the removal of the buy button from Kindle and Nook without much protest. *Personally, I'm very disappointed on several levels. I dislike the reduced functionality, I resent not being able to use a popular app the way Droid and even Blackberry users still can, and I'm concerned about having Apple further limit the use or selection of other apps at their whim. *There*are over 200 million iOS devises out there. *Even if only 10% use Kindle or Nook, Apple decided to downgrade an astounding number of their own customer's experience on their devices. *
The 30% rule Apple has decided to impose only applies to media (books, movies, music) because Apple competes in those markets and iBooks is such a weak contender they have to force customers there. *The regular Amazon store app works fine for in app purchases as do all the other shopping apps: *eBay, Overstock, HSN, Zappos, BestBuy, etc. *For now, anyway. *

Shame on Apple

I agree with you Ninaseer! (see my tirade from a week or so ago) I see this as a first step by Apple to force us to use iBooks. They will see how much of a protest we put up and once it dies down and we have "accepted" this latest method of controlling what we can purchase, they will then apply the extra fees to use another app and/or eliminate our ability to use another app. Once I have purchased my computer (and the iPad is just a computer) I decide what applications/programs I want to put on it, not Apple. It is my property, not theirs.

 

[info]

Hi, I'm new to this forum. Everybody seems to be accepting the removal of the buy button from Kindle and Nook without much protest. *Personally, I'm very disappointed on several levels. I dislike the reduced functionality, I resent not being able to use a popular app the way Droid and even Blackberry users still can, and I'm concerned about having Apple further limit the use or selection of other apps at their whim. *There*are over 200 million iOS devises out there. *Even if only 10% use Kindle or Nook, Apple decided to downgrade an astounding number of their own customer's experience on their devices. *
The 30% rule Apple has decided to impose only applies to media (books, movies, music) because Apple competes in those markets and iBooks is such a weak contender they have to force customers there. *The regular Amazon store app works fine for in app purchases as do all the other shopping apps: *eBay, Overstock, HSN, Zappos, BestBuy, etc. *For now, anyway. *

Shame on Apple

I agree with you Ninaseer! (see my tirade from a week or so ago) I see this as a first step by Apple to force us to use iBooks. They will see how much of a protest we put up and once it dies down and we have "accepted" this latest method of controlling what we can purchase, they will then apply the extra fees to use another app and/or eliminate our ability to use another app. Once I have purchased my computer (and the iPad is just a computer) I decide what applications/programs I want to put on it, not Apple. It is my property, not theirs.

Though I understand your feelings perfectly, I refuse to believe that Apple is this simpleminded.

 

[Ninaseer]

Hi, I'm new to this forum. Everybody seems to be accepting the removal of the buy button from Kindle and Nook without much protest. *Personally, I'm very disappointed on several levels. I dislike the reduced functionality, I resent not being able to use a popular app the way Droid and even Blackberry users still can, and I'm concerned about having Apple further limit the use or selection of other apps at their whim. *There*are over 200 million iOS devises out there. *Even if only 10% use Kindle or Nook, Apple decided to downgrade an astounding number of their own customer's experience on their devices. *
The 30% rule Apple has decided to impose only applies to media (books, movies, music) because Apple competes in those markets and iBooks is such a weak contender they have to force customers there. *The regular Amazon store app works fine for in app purchases as do all the other shopping apps: *eBay, Overstock, HSN, Zappos, BestBuy, etc. *For now, anyway. *

Shame on Apple

I agree with you Ninaseer! (see my tirade from a week or so ago) I see this as a first step by Apple to force us to use iBooks. They will see how much of a protest we put up and once it dies down and we have "accepted" this latest method of controlling what we can purchase, they will then apply the extra fees to use another app and/or eliminate our ability to use another app. Once I have purchased my computer (and the iPad is just a computer) I decide what applications/programs I want to put on it, not Apple. It is my property, not theirs.

Thank you Krirstenn. I think you may be right about Apple's direction. Although it's dissapointing as the App model will start to phase out as folks move to HTML5 web apps and just avoid athe Appstore. But I'll bet the other App platforms will grow. Info sees to think there is more to Apple's strategy, and that may be. Do you have any insight, Info?

Apple has made very clear that they will negatively impact the experience of a very large number of their customers in their fight for market leadership. I find that very disheartening.
I also very much resent limiting my ebook shopping options AFTER it became clear iBooks was seriously lagging. If they had just launched the appstore and decided not to include other ebook stores, that would be one thing....but we've had these apps working with the external links for years now. And the other tablets will have all the ereader options. It really does aggravate me.
Why are they so resistant to making iBooks a better product and competing on those merits?
Didn't we go through this with music and everyone started pirating to have control over their content?

 

[Ninaseer]

Hi, I'm new to this forum. Everybody seems to be accepting the removal of the buy button from Kindle and Nook without much protest. *Personally, I'm very disappointed on several levels. I dislike the reduced functionality, I resent not being able to use a popular app the way Droid and even Blackberry users still can, and I'm concerned about having Apple further limit the use or selection of other apps at their whim. *There*are over 200 million iOS devises out there. *Even if only 10% use Kindle or Nook, Apple decided to downgrade an astounding number of their own customer's experience on their devices. *
The 30% rule Apple has decided to impose only applies to media (books, movies, music) because Apple competes in those markets and iBooks is such a weak contender they have to force customers there. *The regular Amazon store app works fine for in app purchases as do all the other shopping apps: *eBay, Overstock, HSN, Zappos, BestBuy, etc. *For now, anyway. *

Shame on Apple

I agree with you Ninaseer! (see my tirade from a week or so ago) I see this as a first step by Apple to force us to use iBooks. They will see how much of a protest we put up and once it dies down and we have "accepted" this latest method of controlling what we can purchase, they will then apply the extra fees to use another app and/or eliminate our ability to use another app. Once I have purchased my computer (and the iPad is just a computer) I decide what applications/programs I want to put on it, not Apple. It is my property, not theirs.

Hi, I'm new to this forum. Everybody seems to be accepting the removal of the buy button from Kindle and Nook without much protest. *Personally, I'm very disappointed on several levels. I dislike the reduced functionality, I resent not being able to use a popular app the way Droid and even Blackberry users still can, and I'm concerned about having Apple further limit the use or selection of other apps at their whim. *There*are over 200 million iOS devises out there. *Even if only 10% use Kindle or Nook, Apple decided to downgrade an astounding number of their own customer's experience on their devices. *
The 30% rule Apple has decided to impose only applies to media (books, movies, music) because Apple competes in those markets and iBooks is such a weak contender they have to force customers there. *The regular Amazon store app works fine for in app purchases as do all the other shopping apps: *eBay, Overstock, HSN, Zappos, BestBuy, etc. *For now, anyway. *

Shame on Apple

I agree with you Ninaseer! (see my tirade from a week or so ago) I see this as a first step by Apple to force us to use iBooks. They will see how much of a protest we put up and once it dies down and we have "accepted" this latest method of controlling what we can purchase, they will then apply the extra fees to use another app and/or eliminate our ability to use another app. Once I have purchased my computer (and the iPad is just a computer) I decide what applications/programs I want to put on it, not Apple. It is my property, not theirs.

Though I understand your feelings perfectly, I refuse to believe that Apple is this simpleminded.

If you have better insight, please share it. I feel like I've eaten the Apple and now I'm trapped in the garden ruled by the Almighty AppStore. And I have serious indigestion.

 

[info]

I don't have any better insights as it *is* somewhat disconcerting. I suppose that when one considers the goodwill that Apple has accumulated with it's customers over the short period of time that I have been watching, it's hard not to believe in them. "Believe it and you will see it." Or, a rhetorical question... haven't we seen enough already?

 

[Davydd]

Problem solved. Amazon.com just came out with a web based Kindle Cloud Reader that is app like and stores your books in the Cloud. You can also go to the specially formatted app like Kindle Store. In some ways this is better than the old way. All you have to do is go to Amazon.com and sign in with your account and install an app icon from Safari onto your desktop. It works on Safari PC/Mac/iPad and Chrome. They beat Apple at their own game on this. I'd look for others to follow suit.

 

[info]

I saw the article too, though I didn't quite understand it. I suppose that installing it on the PC will give me a clearer picture. I sort of got the impression that the "app" was for Windows or OSX only, though I read through it rather quickly.

 

[Ninaseer]

Problem solved. Amazon.com just came out with a web based Kindle Cloud Reader that is app like and stores your books in the Cloud. You can also go to the specially formatted app like Kindle Store. In some ways this is better than the old way. All you have to do is go to Amazon.com and sign in with your account and install an app icon from Safari onto your desktop. It works on Safari PC/Mac/iPad and Chrome. They beat Apple at their own game on this. I'd look for others to follow suit.

Excellent! Thanks for sharing this, Davydd. Info, It works great on my iPad, but only supported by Safari and Chrome right now. You'll see it on the Amazon Kindle web site under Kindle Cloud. I just downloaded. It doesn't support iPhone yet, but its an excellent start. And it looks like we may get prices back in line with Amazons discounted models. A class action suit has been filed on behalf of those that purchased Kindle e-books with prices that were "set by the publisher". Here's the link to join:
http://www.hbsslaw.com/joinacase/suit/557

 

[thewitt]

. They beat Apple at their own game on this. I'd look for others to follow suit.

There is no game. This has always been allowed and supported at Apple.

In-App purchases require revenue sharing. Web Apps do not.

No need to "get around" anything at all.

-t

 

[info]

Excellent! Thanks for sharing this, Davydd. Info, It works great on my iPad, but only supported by Safari and Chrome right now. You'll see it on the Amazon Kindle web site under Kindle Cloud. I just downloaded. It doesn't support iPhone yet, but its an excellent start. And it looks like we may get prices back in line with Amazons discounted models. A class action suit has been filed on behalf of those that purchased Kindle e-books with prices that were "set by the publisher". Here's the link to join:
Hagens Berman > Join a Lawsuit

Oh, OK... Now I see, I completely misunderstood it.

Thanks Ninaseer.